+++ #295 Subject: possible tool/material source From: Daniel Fox I just got this off another list I'm on: http://www.surplusaircrafttools.com/ Caveat emptor, YMMV, etc. but it looks interesting. +++ #304 Subject: Re: possible tool/material source From: t18co- > http://www.surplusaircrafttools.com/ > Caveat emptor, YMMV, etc. but it looks interesting. _I have bought a few items from this source ( The Yard) and been very satisfied. They currently have a 2X rivet gun for 49.95 that several builders around here bought and they were aircraft quality_tools with teasing triggers. +++ #531 Subject: 2nd airplane From: gdanfor- In building the Hatz, I found a sand blaster most handy and you can build your own easily. Best source for parts is "TIPTOOLS.com". They have plans and every thing you need to build a very inexpensive blaster. +++ #1112 Subject: rivets From: stephan pelgar in the mil i do alot of riveting.alot of the time we donthave the proper length in stock but hey that the goverment supply sys.we use a pair of rivet cutters.tit is like what he said about the wire cutter stripper tool but better.the metal is thicker and last longer and the handle is long to so makes it alot easier to cut.there is also a nice feature.there are the leafs that on it and you can set the height.then cut as many as you need.it will shear it off nice and clean so when you buck.the bucktail will be a good one.there in the aircraft tools and supply catalog for not to much.they make a heavy duty on that is great but also alittle pricier.i have seen them on ebay alot to.they seem to be gping for 20-30 bucks for the heavy ones on there.which is a very good price for there.(one thing about ebay know the going price in the catalogs before bidding cause i have seen alot of things being over paid for on there.especially clecos people are paying 40 cents a peice when youcan get them in a catalog for 31 cents apiece.) +++ #1140 Subject: Tex-Montana Express From: Russ Erb > As for the tools that I have. Del gave you a good rundown already. For sheet metal work, you'll need lots and lots of tools. I'd plan on at least $1000 tool budget to begin with. I've well exceeded that. My recommendation is that you call 1-800-OK-AVERY (1-800-652-8379) or go to www.averytools.com and request their free catalog. Study this catalog. They offer several "starter" kits, mostly aimed at RV and Glastar builders, but they will give you an idea of what is needed. You mentioned interest in ordering the Bearhawk Reference CD. On it you will find descriptions of most of the tools in the catalog and what they are used for (written by me, not the catalog). I've also included writeups on steel working tools (bandsaw, drill press, shear, etc) which I had previously published on this list. +++ #1159 Subject: Re: Tex-Montana Express From: Todd Chisum Northern Tool and Equipment (www.northerntool.com) lists a 3/16" heavey duty rivet gun for $129.00, item #157632-F718. It comes with 3/32, 1/8 5/32 & 3/16 nose pieces and sets all types of blind rivets and mono bolts. My brother tells me Harbor Freight sells one for $40.00, but I don't have any other info on it. I would imagine both sell riveters for solid rivets too. Don't forget about the local EAA chapter. Seems like every chapter has its own RV support group. Members may be willing to loan some specialty tools to another builder, or maybe find someone else needing the same expensive tool and split the purchase price. +++ #1179 Subject: re router for alum From: stephan pelgar there are bits made for cutting alum with a router.there like a end mill with a slight taper and a quick cut flute.i know that ats(aircraft tool and supply) company sells them.i think there like 10 bucks a piece.as for regular bits im not really sure if they will work.hope this helps +++ #1486 Subject: Lowbuck Tools From: Float-by Shooter I've been looking over this website I found tonight and thought that some of you might be interested: http://www.lowbucktools.com/ Apparently it is a one-man operation and he offers several products that might be of interest to bearhawk builders including some sheetmetal brakes priced for considerably less than other US made brakes of similar capability. I'm thinking of getting one of the 4 foot models, they have a built in 1/8" radius on the nose so no need to mess with toe covers and such. The largest model listed is 6', maybe he could be talked into building an 8 footer. 8^) Of special note to those of you making fittings from 4130, he has a 6" brake for doing heavy steel with a 1/8" radius for about $200. Brakes of similar capabilty list at about $600 in aircraft spruce and elsewhere. The less expensive brake doesn't have replaceable/interchangeable nose dies for varying the radius and box/pan capability but for $400 I could live without that. I'm almost certain that I wouldn't have gone to the trouble of making pressbrake dies if I had discovered this sooner. If anybody has had experience with any of their brakes (or other tools), I'd love to hear about it. +++ #1487 Subject: Re: Lowbuck Tools From: Donald Schindler I have been a "lowbuck" tool fan for years and have many of their tools and they work great. Order their catalogue and if your like me you'll buy. The owner got started making tools for fellow race car builder's that could'nt afford the big buck stuff and bang he had a business. #068 Don +++ #1488 Subject: Re: Clecos From: budd davisson Who has the cheapest price and best service on clecos?? +++ #1495 Subject: Re: Lowbuck Tools From: Bruce A. Frank "Low Buck" tools has been around the race car industry for years. The tools are solidly built though somewhat crude (not bad, just simple) and may require some refinement to get the precision you want, but I think they are worth the price. +++ #1535 Subject: Re: Tools - found a good price on new Cleco's From: Shelly A quick note - nothing irks you ( read pi--s you off) like clecos that don't work when you really need them. Don't skimp here. Best clecos I found were at Avery. Pay what you have to, but but good ones. +++ #1536 Subject: Tools - found a good price on new Cleco's From: Kelvin Gurney U.S. Industrial Tool & Supply Company (http://www.ustool.com/monthly.html) has 80 cleco's for $25.00 in their "Tool Specials of the Month". Seems like a good price to me. +++ #1537 Subject: Re: Tools - found a good price on new Cleco's From: Float-by Shooter BTW, Should this be listed with the heading of "Other"? What's the group's opinion? If you find a deal that might be of interest to the rest of the Bearhawk builders, I don't care what subject heading you use, so long as you send it our way. 8^) Got the Tennsmith catalog in the mail tonight, and drooled all over the pretty pictures of the shears and brakes and slip rolls and things for a few minutes, and then I looked at the included price list which snapped me back to reality very quickly. Hopefully the Lowbuck tools catalog will arrive soon. I wrote him back to ask if he would consider making an 8' version of this brake and was told in no uncertain terms that he would not. 8^( He did say that the 4' professional model would have no problem bending .032 4130 sheet along the full length, so it might be just the thing for tailfeather and fuselage stuff. The only problem I can see is that the bend radius might be a little *too* generous at 1/8" on the nose of the brake. That might cause a problem when bending the edges down on the tailfeather ribs but I guess it wouldn't be a big deal to make a toe cover with less radius (of all things). +++ #1540 Subject: TOOLs...as in US Tools From: Tim Cramb Yeah, don't Rush..........; I bought my Clecos from that US Tools monthly special page over a year ago, hasn't changed since should say Yearly Specials and wanted "Web-Master". US Tool clecos good quality happy with the few hundred I bought. +++ #1541 Subject: Re: Clecos From: Bill Cox At the start of this project I bought 80 of the promotional clecos to get started. I just recently got to the point of opening the package and using them. My older clecos have a nicely tapered point and slide easily into the hole. The new ones are fairly blunt and in many cases the points tend to spread apart as they're opened. This makes it difficult to install and may mar the edges of the hole as you struggle to install them. I was able to taper the points a little on the band sander to make them a little better. I need about 100 more when I begin to skin the wing and I will look for a better made cleco at Sun n' Fun. You can usually get a deal there especially if you buy 100 or more. +++ #1543 Subject: re cleco's From: stephan pelgar i saw that you were talking about buying some clecos.i know when i bought mine a bit ago.my friends who builds race cars wanted some to so we bought them togethor with a couple of other people.since we togethor bought a larger volume we got a better price from ATS.this is just food for thought.find some and make one large order for the clecos and you can get for 31 cents each when you get 1000 or more. bjh +++ #1613 From: Kelvin Gurney Subject: [Bearhawk] Used tools I have found some good deals on tools at ReIiable tools auction web site (http://www.reliableiam.com/). They are mainly an industrial tool web site but occasionally have surplus tools from Northrup. +++ #2085 From: Mike Eldredge Subject: Bearhawk Tool Exchange? Has anybody considered the possibility of circulating the special tools and dies used to form parts? Is it even economical to ship them around, or are they in general just too heavy? Being new to the building community, I don't know if this sort of thing is a good idea or not. Has it ever been tried here or elsewhere? I just figure there will be enough work fabricating the airplane, and if I can save myself a little work here and there making tools, it would be well worth it. Any comments? +++ #2086 From: g.renken Subject: Re: [Bearhawk] Bearhawk Tool Exchange? The concept of a parts co-op isn't a bad one, could work like a barter exchange. The only concerns are the quality of the parts being made. If every builder puts the highest quality of workmanship into the part being made, then he could expect to trade for of equal quality. How would you put a value on the parts and arrive at a fair exchange- thats the reason it isn't likely to work; every "craftsman" would feel that his part is worth more than the other "craftsman's" part. If it is homebuilt, we are looking to save money, but when we become craftsmen and trade our products those ugly human traits of pride, greed, and envy have a way of finding their entrance. A more likely scenario would be to sell your product for an arbitrary amount, and in the free marketplace it will probably be self correcting (if one overcharges- so does everyone else, and the plane becomes too expensive for all of us) as we will build our own parts if we cannot afford each other's craftmanship. When I decide for sure that I am going to build a Bearhawk, I will evaluate my capabilities at producing particular parts and consider this, but in the meanwhile I'm watching all of your projects with particular interest at the problems or areas of difficulty (defined as armchair homebuilder). A couple of guys have already offered their services of fuselage welding (I haven't heard any prices quoted) and apparently kit negotiations are in the works. Personally I think that someone who is skilled in tool and die making could do well (and serve us all very well) in renting well constructed rib forming dies. Another tool for jigging up engine mounts would be nice. Just my thoughts. By the way, I really enjoy reading all of your posts and hope to join the club (as a builder) someday soon. rnkydnk@b... +++ #2087 From: Steve Eldredge Subject: RE: [Bearhawk] Bearhawk Tool Exchange? I think you mistook parts exchange for the real subject of passing around tooling, and/or Jigs. +++ #2548 From: budd davisson Subject: saw blades I may have asked this before, if so just forgive me. I'm old and the negative G's are accumulative. Does anyone out there have a good mail order source for the 64 1/2" hack saw bandsaw blades? I know Harbor Frieght has them but they don't have the wavy edged 32T mothurs that work best on 4130 (and old cow pies). 14T and 18T's shoot too many torn teeth in too many different directions and yank the blade of the wheels constantly. +++ #2549 From: Subject: Re: [Bearhawk] saw blades > Does anyone out there have a good mail order source for the 64 1/2" > hack saw bandsaw blades? >> Have you tried the MSC catalog? They are also on the net. +++ #2551 From: Todd Chisum Subject: Re: [Bearhawk] saw blades > Does anyone out there have a good mail order source for the 64 1/2" > hack saw bandsaw blades? I used to order different bandsaw blades from a company here in Tulsa- DoALL Industrial Supply, 918-835-6944. They had about every type of blade material you could want. +++ #2552 From: Bob Romanko Subject: RE: [Bearhawk] saw blades I don't know about 32 tpi wavy, but you can buy Starrett 100' .025"x1/2" 24 tpi wavy coils for about $57.00 at Airgas Direct Industrial/Rutland Tool. Flex back is $57 and tempered is $62.25. At least that's what I'm seeing in my catalog. Their phone number is 1-800-289-4787. They may be able to special order 32 tpi for you if give a call to their technical support/customer service at 800-444-4787 and ask real nicely. If that doesn't work, you can always make your own blades. +++ #2556 From: Subject: Re: [Bearhawk] saw blades > Who is MSC? and do you have their URL? >> MSC Industrial supply Co. http://www.mscdirect.com 1-800-645-7270 Just give them a call & see if they have what you want. Saves time. The catalog is bigger than a phone book. They have 102 branch offices. +++ #2557 From: Subject: Re: [Bearhawk] saw blades Local Phoenix source for saw blades. ECHOLS SAW & SUPPLIES 3824 W VANBUREN PHOENIX, AZ 602-278-3918 Saws and sawng is these guys only business. They make blades from coil stock, very good guys. I use them for work and home saw blades. If they can"t make it they will get if. +++ #2562 From: The Stones Subject: Re: [Bearhawk] saw blades > Does anyone out there have a good mail order source for the 64 1/2" > hack saw bandsaw blades? Try the below url. It's for ENCO a tool place. They Carry the 64.5 in both standard and bi-metal blades. They also have 100 ft rolls from which you can make your own. http://www.use-enco.com/ +++ #2584 Bion Rogers Subject: Re: Leather Mallet/Hammer Source? The following is available from Brownells, a gunsmithing tools supplier. They have a wonderful warranty ( If your not happy with it, send it back for refund or replacement)I use them in my gunshop all the time. These are the old style thick layer wrapped, boiled in wax, animal glued kind that everyone wants but always says they can't find them Made in the USA. Brownells has many hand tools that are impossible to procure anywhere else, and I'm not just talking about gun tools or parts. This is from their on-line catalog at brownells.com +++ Aircraft Tool Supply has a hole flanging tool that looks like it might work. I bought one but haven't used it yet. Their URL is www.aircraft-tool.com +++ #2878 From: Bob Romanko Subject: RE: [Bearhawk]brakes and stuff Try this link: http://www.surplusrecord.com/ It is the MOTHER of all web sites for what's going on in the heavy surplus world. Many, many links are here. The search engine on the site is also very good. I have an 8' D&K 818 that Shelley turned me on to, right from the good 'ol Bearhawk eGroup. Turns out the brake was located only about ten miles from my brother's house in western PA. I hauled it down to the shop about two weeks ago on my trailer. The best $400 I ever spent. Thanks Shelly! It only took about three hours to level and adjust, and now I'm a breakin' fool. Now if only I could find a similar deal on a 2-stage compressor! +++ #2879 From: Vic Subject: Re: [Bearhawk]brakes and stuff > Now if only I could find a similar deal on a 2-stage compressor! You might check with the local Snap-On dealers. They drive around to all the shops & know who's going out of business etc. I have a friend here who is a Snap-On dealer & for a while he had a nice side business buying & selling compressors from auto shops that closed. +++ #2884 From: Robert Hughes Subject: Re: [Bearhawk] Pneumatic Drill Recommendations? Another popular supplier familiar to the RV guys is http://www.browntool.com Michael Brown is honest, and frequently has well-priced specials on new and used small air tools. My last goody from him was a Sioux 1/4" palm-size drill with rubber-clad grip..... When you pick it up you automatically smile and your pulse rate drops 10 bpm. +++ #5478 From: "lbhensley" Subject: Re: [Bearhawk] Rotobores Source? Dew, Look up Hougan in the MSC. This is one of the manufacturers of these tools. If not there, maybe they have web site that you can get some info from. The ones I bought I got locally. (Ocala, Florida) Any local tool supply house should have them. Look at the other e-mail that I sent, there are some pics on there. +++ #5479 From: Mark_Deacon/MSP/Mesaba%Mesaba@M... Subject: Re: [Bearhawk] Rotobores Source? Yes Hougen is the manufacturer and they're up in Flint, MI, but the products name is "rotabroach". They have a couple of different sets and sizes range from 1/4" to 2 1/16" but they aren't cheap. I haven't used them as tube cutters but they do a bang up job cutting in aluminum and auto body steel. The trick will be in having a solid setup and slow rotational/ feed speeds, let us know how they work cuttin' tube. Good Luck Mark Deacon +++ #5480 From: "Kent White" Subject: Re: [Bearhawk] Rotobores Source? The Hougen Rotabroach is quite a dandy item. Spendy, though. Hougen makes other circular cutters for thin sheet that make a hole so clean it looks punched. They also have a small set that go from 5/16" or so, up to 3/4". I have used their cutters for many many years and have yet to replace one. Kent "Tin Man" White +++ #5485 From: zipppydoggg@y... Subject: Re: Rotobores Source? > Where do you get those things? I just checked on Cleveland Tools on line. They have the "kit" that may be what the Tinman is referring to for $62.00. $.02 worth Rob "Phoenix finally warming up to 90 deg F" Gaddy Bh401 +++ #5486 From: nov222pa@c... Subject: Re: [Bearhawk] Rotabroach http://www.hougen.com 3001 Hougen Drive Swartz Creek, MI 48473 Mailing address: P.O. Box 2005 Flint, MI, 48501-2005 Phone (810) 635-7111; Fax (810) 635-8277; Order Entry (800) 426-7818 Fax order entry (800) 309-3299 frk490 >>> 20may03 #11298-18250 +++ #16929 From: "Shawn Burns" Subject: Re: U.S. Tool Sale item Brown Aviation Tool has the Taylor 3x rivet gun for $149.95, and the SIOUX 3x rivet gun for $209.95 I believe that is without accessories. I haven't ordered from them yet but here is the link if you are interested: http://www.browntool.com/ I just bought the Sioux 3X riviet gun from Brown Aviation Tool. The service was great, they shipped the next day (I ordered at night online) and the tool arrived on the 2nd day. I have not seen it yet as it was shipped to my home field and I am in CA until June (counting down the days!). I bought on the reputation of Sioux tools and the outstanding price. Another source with good prices on quality name brand tools is Isham's out of Valley Center, KS: http://www.planetools.com I have not purchased anything from them yet but the rivet sets they sell look like heavy duty, production-type tooling. One tool of particular interest is their 24" C-frame riveting tool for $99. It will reach any rivet hole in a 48" sheet, very helpful when dimpling the wing skins! And the price is less than Avery's, Brown, Cleaveland, or any other I have seen. I can't wait to get home to stay and get this thing built. The time away from building does allow for careful planning of my building time, but thinking, planning, and talking doesn't get it done. Shawn Burns +++ #17561 From: "Shawn Burns" Subject: scotchbrite abrasives source Any of you neophytes like me who are still working of Aluminum wing parts that need those little scotchbrite wheels to deburr the lightening holes, edges, and radius corners, I have found a good deal. A surplus sales company out of Nebraska, named oddly enough, Surplus Sales of Nebraska, has 1X1X3/16 unitized wheels for sale. The 3M wheels have 5A FN on them and seem to be the right thing to do the job. The cost of them is $12 for 50 plus a mandrel to use in a die grinder, drill motor, etc. Avery and others charge $4.50 a piece for these things, without the mandrel! I also bought some wheels of the same size made by standard Abrasives- they are of medium grit and they seem harder and more aggressive than the 3M product. the cost is 10 for $5.00 on these. I have not used them get, as I am in homebuilders hell, 1900 miles from my BH and shop, but I think they will make prepping the wing ribs a whole lot easier. the web site is http:/www.surplussales.com I hope someone finds this helpful. Shawn Burns +++ #17603 From: Sam Butler Subject: Re: scotchbrite abrasives source www.americanbuff.com sells unitized wheels polishing wheels, even some neat unitized wheels on a type 27 mount, surface conditioning discs etc, at very reasonble prices, (three different grits, fine, medium, and heavey) they start around $.50 for the little stuff on up to about $8.00 for the 4" and about $13.00 for the 6" stuff, just bought some, their website was a bit confusing, but I called them on the phone and they were very helpful, looks like good quality stuff. Sam Butler +++ $Id: 3.2-Tools-Suppliers,v 1.9 2003/05/22 04:07:52 bentonh Exp $